| Author | Comment |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
06:34 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | We've hit 3,000 downloads! IT'S GREAT! Thanks for everyone who's helped me along the way:
Zkostik
Dysfunction
Momen Soudan (ENCOURAGEMENT!)
Kevin (Again, the encouragement!!!!!!)
and everyone else! thank you everyone! :)
This is a big step for us . . .it's not much . . . but I'm still happy! :)
[Edited by calculatorfreakCG on 24-Jan-04 04:27] |
Barrett
Administrator
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
11:27 GMT
Total Posts: 1676 | who's the main author of bustamove?
i just noticed it said "i made 1 thing..."...
i'd like to give credit to all the of authors.
---
-Barrett A |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
15:51 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | WTH? Why is calcfreak the author bust-a-move, I never saw tha? Real author is joe flint. See it here: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/197/19715.html (copy+paste it)
It appears to be a recompiled version of version 1.5 (not even the newest...). Also, where did you acquire the source calcfreak? The source is not available...
Unless calcfreak can show something, I would say, delete the file from archives and take away illegit downloads.
[Edited by spiral on 24-Jan-04 00:52] |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
15:53 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | and calcfreak was the one worried about people stealing his programs and no giving him credit... |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
19:00 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | Ugh. I hate it when people jump to conclusions.
My friend, Mark Hayes, helped me with some ASM to improve BAM . .jeez . . .alot of it is orginal new stuff we've made for the game. Gosh. Sure, add Mark's name to it. Not like he'd care . . .but I helped him . . he knows most of the ASM . . .I just gave him ideas and after he'd taught me some simple things for ASM, I made alot of new things for it too.
EDIT: Spiral, Mark gave me the code and we helped re-write it. It's a game we improved. Barret: You're right, just add the name Mark Hayes into it. But Mark wouldn't have time to actually register at a site like this . . . :)
[Edited by calculatorfreakCG on 24-Jan-04 04:26] |
Barrett
Administrator
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
21:20 GMT
Total Posts: 1676 | and it also says joe flint in the about menu of the game... along with a dozen or so other names.
so Joe Flint
Calculator Freak
and Mark Hayes
there's room for 1 more... if you tell me which of those other names deserves it i'll put it on the credits
---
-Barrett A |
Barrett
Administrator
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
21:24 GMT
Total Posts: 1676 | and Nick Haigler.
---
-Barrett A |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
21:38 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | now this is interesting... |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 23 Jan 2004
21:49 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Holy s**t...
Why didn't I pick up on this before? Calcfreak has said that he doens't know ASM, and would like to learn it...
And I never checked on that BAM was ASM...
damn...
They're exactly the same, at least on the simulator...
It seems ironic that calcfreak, Mr. Paranoid about having credit stolen from him, decides to rip off a game...
Also: Just to says this, i just hit 13,000 downloads...
[Edited by allynfolksjr on 24-Jan-04 07:16] |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
00:38 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | the full list of authors: Joe Flint, Nick Haigler, Andy Poes, Hideaki Omuro, Paul Marks, Danny Rogers.
Looking through the compiled code with a binary editor, it is nearly 99% the same. What kind of "rewrite" was this, adding in some nop's? Btw: a NOP is no operation.
Again: How did Mark Hayes acquire the source code to Bust-a-move? Why isn't it distrubuted with the original documentation? Finally, why is it the old 1.5 version rather than the newer 1.6 version? |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
00:39 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | btw, if you rewrote it, why didn't you add your name to the credits? |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
08:41 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | That was what I was woudering, when I was testing it on the computer, I tried to differetate the two programs apart, but the author credits were the same... |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
14:02 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | Why bother? They had the orginal idea . .. . I'd never take away their orignal idea! And no Barret,WE reworte the game, the updats are ours . . . we changed it. I can't believe you people.
Allyn-Mark Hays knows ASM! He and I fixed it. |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
15:16 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | but how did he get the source code? And also, what exactly did you improve?
[Edited by allynfolksjr on 25-Jan-04 00:17] |
Barrett
Administrator
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
15:32 GMT
Total Posts: 1676 | are you telling me to remove joe flint and nick haigler from the author list?
no. you can't rewrite a program and call it yours.
especially when there aren't any major differences.
and honestly, i'm only going to keep your name as an author if you tell us what you changed and how you got the source.
---
-Barrett A |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
15:35 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Umm...
"Mark Hays knows ASM! He and I fixed it."
Fixed what, exactly? |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 24 Jan 2004
23:27 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | The source simply is not availible on ticalc or tiworld (i checked their oldest, older, and current-but-dead site).
If you examine the code in a hex-editor, (xvi32 is a decent freeware one) the largest differences are in the end junk and the starting junk. Most of the other differences, for example, I saw one value different within actual code portion, I'd assume that is due to different compilers. Btw, I peered through a lot of the hex values, nearly all the same.
I want to see the original source, and your source (if you compiled it, you must have the source, or e-mail this mark hayes for it) to see the differences. |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
11:45 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | You wanna ban me? HAHAHAH! Thats hilarious! Spiral . . .I'm your only active user who opposes tranny! Allyn is on your side no doubt . . .but let me tell you . . .Ti Calc will get rid of your link on their site-you have PORN ads! I guess that you probably will ban me-what do I care, this is my last post, but it will probably be deleted anyways.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA NOW I HAVE THE LAST LAUGH! HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH I won't hear yours spiral! I'm *gone*! |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
16:01 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | I don't think one freak occurance of a *porn ad*...which was a vigara ad...not exactly porn...will get ticalc to remove a link...
You know, we never did find out how the source code was gotten and what modifications were made... |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
16:49 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | I'll tell you:
1) Mark Hayes got the code like you or I would get it
2) We edited it
3) We fixed it.
But WHY DOES IT MATTER! YUO SAID YOURSLEF THAT IT WAS BETTER TO MAKE THE CALC GAME WORLD A BIGGER, BETTER PLACE! "Who cares about the authors."
WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Ban me now, end the misery!!!!!!!!!" |
BullFrog
Wraith
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
17:11 GMT
Total Posts: 623 | If you took the code, changed a few things, and called it your own then that's really pathetic. Even when I rewrite 83 basic programs to run on the 89, I try to make it as clear as possible who the original author was. It was their work to begin with.
---
"Men are not prisoners of fate, but only prisoners of their own minds." -Franklin D. Roosevelt |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
17:14 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Why does it matter?
Well, you took the source code, without the permission of the authors..."like you or I would get it."
You 'fixed it.'
But you gave, NO CREDIT to any of the origional authors, not in the program authors part of the file page, not in the non-existint readme.
Umm...I think you're misquoting me...yes, to make it better place...thats true.
Umm...are you daring the admins to ban you? because I think they just might...
So much for your last post... |
Barrett
Administrator
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
18:06 GMT
Total Posts: 1676 | alright everyone calm down.
I don't think he's done anything worthy of being banned.
I like calcfreak around, he's one of the highest posters on this site and comes here a lot, which brings the forums alive for a lot of people.
I still haven't come to any conclusions about whether or not he did anything with the game, and if he did, that's great.
If he didn't, the sooner he tells us, the more I'll respect him. And I have no intentions of banning him.
Note to calcfreak - We try to get the most deserving, and hardest working people on the author list. That's why I needed to add Joe and Nick to that list. I'd like to know exactly what you did, because this entire scenario seems quite suspicious to me. I haven't looked at the 2 binaries through a hex editor yet, but what spiral is telling us makes everything more suspicious. He mentionted a one byte change somewhere along the program. If that's your one change that you made to the game, that's probably not worthy of authorship(I'd guess that would be a sprite/picture change somewhere). Then again the start and end junk was different.
You can email me if you don't want to make it public, but I'd like to know what the deal is.
No one likes being mislead, but I think the best way to get recognition is to develop your own skills as a programmer and work on your own projects. Changing someone else's code is a good way to develop your skills. That's how I learned how to program BASIC, C, C++, perl, php and html(although technically not programming). But don't take credit for other people's work.
Again, I have not come to any conclusions, just be honest and get this over with as soon as possible.
---
-Barrett A |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
18:23 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | Ahhhhhhh. It seems that maybe . . .I could stay?
Well . . .you see Barret . . we you've ben treated like I have . . .you wonder why you weren't just banned.
It seems that I might actually still have some friends! Amazing!
Well, what the heck, I don't care anymore about BAM, do whatever you wanna do to it Barret! In that case . . .I'll be staying. Topic closed. |
dysfunction
Goliath
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
18:47 GMT
Total Posts: 122 | You're still my friend... sheesh, my computer crashes for a couple days and you guys are at each other's throats. But what I'd like to know, calcfreak, is
What, EXACTLY, did you change?
Why didn't you include th original authors?
And how did you suddenly learn ASM when you just asked me to teach you a week ago? |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
19:24 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Ahh, this topic would never have been so confrontational if calcfreak would just answer those simple questions... |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
19:54 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | Ok, i just finished a rather long (~1 hour, 20 minutes according to AIM timestamp) conversation with Joe Flint, the author himself. Btw, if you want to talk to him for accountability, his aim screenname is freebe8
Conclusion: Joe was pretty sure he had not given the source to Mark Hayes. And if he did give it to them "they did not have my permission to modify it." - Joe's words on AIM. His analysis is, that Calcfreak and Mark Hayes (I doubt the latter exists though), dissassembled binary, and then recompiled it. If this was the case, Calcfreak would have been unable to change nearly anything, because dissassembled Z80 is very messy and difficult to read, much less change. There was one problem that recompiling would have solved though, ti-connect was unable to send Bust-a-move 1.5 because of a error in the program header. 1.6 was released only on tiworld's site to solve this, but never on ticalc.
After telling Joe Flint, he rewrote the header of the program to make it under a GPL license. The source is now released with the program.
P.S. Z i uploaded the new file to calcgames (with the permission of Joe Flint, under Joe Flint's name/e-mail), which includes the source, 83 and 83+ binaries, and GPL license. I think we should delete Calcfreak's version. |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 25 Jan 2004
21:00 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | They tried to change dissassembled code? Wow...
Well, that pretty much wraps this topic up.
On a cool sidenote: You can have encrypted AIM conversations...
I found this site that has certificates for free. http://ca.cryptgate.com
It's pretty cool, if you have outlook, you can use it for e-mail too.
[Edited by allynfolksjr on 26-Jan-04 06:05] |
Digital
Guardian
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
12:58 GMT
Total Posts: 1051 | Calcfreak, you actions are highly suspicious. To reiterate what most have said, you have constantly avoided the question about what you changed in the program. If it were up to me, I'd would ban you right now because you have not proven that the code is original and also from what spiral said, you seem to be lying up the ying yang and dishonesty in one of the things I have little torlerance for espicially since you almost went off on Z for the mere possibility of forgetting to give you credit for a BASIC program. |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
14:10 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | D, e-mail me back. |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
15:29 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Maybe you guys should have a chat tribunal. <--thats a cool word, in my opinion |
Digital
Guardian
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
15:37 GMT
Total Posts: 1051 | Yes, tribunal is a freakn' awsome word. We just have to find time when we all are on AIM
Spiral, I did before I posted that post. E-mail to my hotmail if you didn't get it. |
zkostik
Carrier
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
19:28 GMT
Total Posts: 2486 | Calcfreaks BAM was removed and original version by Joe Flint inherited its spot (and got its downloads, though pls let me know if you think the download counter should be reset).
Sorry calcfreak, but your incompetence and disregard for other people's work was the reason here. Be honest and give proper credit next time, if there will be one.
---
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 |
dysfunction
Goliath
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
20:06 GMT
Total Posts: 122 | Yeah, I'm doing pretty well, considering all I've uploaded so far is a little demo. Bet I'll have a lot of DLs once the alpha gets uploaded. |
calculatorfreakCG
Wraith
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
20:40 GMT
Total Posts: 739 | Sheez. I close this topic-and what do I get, a thousand more things.
Look, wheter you believer me or not, I don't care. But this topic is closed. |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
21:16 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | In case you forgot, but this topic was moved so you can't close it. A wise move on the admins part...
dysfunction: did you post in the wrong topic? beacuse what you said doesn't make any sense...
[Edited by allynfolksjr on 27-Jan-04 06:26] |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
21:48 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | Yes allyn, I moved the thread. Originally, I was thinking of removing calcfreak's modship from his forum, but Z was against it, so this worked.
I will answer the questions as best I can from what I have gathered.
Changes: nearly purely in the header
Evidence: source code only availible from decompile, dissassembled source is nearly impossible to add things to.
Mark Hayes: probably at least partially made up
Evidence: intuition
Source: gotten from disassembler
Evidence: Joe Flint said he had not given to source to anyone, and it was not availible on any website.
One positive note in favor of calcfreak, his disassembling and recompiling fixed the header that would not allow it to be sent through ti-connect (ti-greaphlink would work). The Joe also knew this and released 1.6 version on his own site, but not on ticalc.
Result: New version 1.61 is in calcgames archives (and ticalc). Downloads were taken away from calcfreak and given to Joe Flint. Calcfreak has lost respect in the community.
Btw Calcferak, you are free to take the source and modify it now, but you must distrubute it under GNU General Public License terms. That's the 17 kilobyte (when uncompressed) text document in the zip of 1.61. |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 26 Jan 2004
21:48 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | this thread is closed |
