| Author | Comment |
stephendonnelly88
Dragoon
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
16:59 GMT
Total Posts: 97 | I've heard that after several hundred writes and re-writes, the Flash card in the TI calculators can exoerience "wear" (I read this somewhere on DetachedSolutions.com).
Is the same true for calculators that only have RAM memory (i.e. the TI-86)?
Just curious. Thanks! :) |
CoffmanRunner
Ultralisk
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
19:04 GMT
Total Posts: 235 | By wear to do you mean the ram slowly "dissapears" or it take longer to to some thing cause the ram is "wore down"?
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Never gonna let you down... |
threefingeredguy
Ghost
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
19:14 GMT
Total Posts: 1189 | I don't know what happens exactly, but I have heard that too. It won't affect calculators that don't have the Flash ROM.
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Someone call for an exterminator? |
calcul831415
Marine
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
19:49 GMT
Total Posts: 33 | :o [looks at 89Ti with tons of Flash ROM] Oh well, at least I haven't done any archiving yet. |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
20:20 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | RAM, it could wear out, but would take a longer time than the flash to, and lets face it, although flash (A modified version of EEPROM) will need like 10 years of constant use to wear out, but it can happen, just takes a long time. |
stephendonnelly88
Dragoon
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
20:45 GMT
Total Posts: 97 | Dude! Ten years! How did you calculate that? And at anyrate, I'll have a new calculator by that point.
I'm already saving-up for the successor of the current TI-89 Titainium. :) |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
21:51 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Ten years? It seemed like a good guess. <.< |
jessef
Goliath
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
22:05 GMT
Total Posts: 192 | I believe that ram is basically an array of capacitors that are refreshed to the desired value so they don't loose their charge. over time I guess they might get worn out probably depends on the type. by then though your old calculator will be about as powerful as your wristwatch.
[Edited by jessef on 16-Dec-05 07:06] |
bcherry
Dragoon
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
22:31 GMT
Total Posts: 61 | Realistically, you don't need to worry about it happening to your calc. It's not like its going to wear out after archiving and unarchiving 50 times, more like 10,000 times. I don't think that worrying about it should be a problem. In fact, I'd feel honored if i used my calc so much it actually wore out the ROM... |
spiral
Wraith
Posted: 15 Dec 2005
23:21 GMT
Total Posts: 958 | you'll only lose a few sectors at a time, and it'll take a really long time. Personally I don't even use my calculator's flash anymore. |
calcul831415
Marine
Posted: 16 Dec 2005
00:39 GMT
Total Posts: 33 | Oh well. I feel bad for my friends's 83+SE's Archive. Within the past three hours, it's garbage collected like a billion times! (well that was hyperbole; it was more like 50) |
Andy
Administrator
Posted: 16 Dec 2005
06:16 GMT
Total Posts: 939 | If RAM wore out, then 10-year-old mainframes would no longer be in service, but they are, so it doesn't. QED. |
stephendonnelly88
Dragoon
Posted: 16 Dec 2005
06:38 GMT
Total Posts: 97 | What about my Dodge RAM pick-up? It wore out after 120,000 miles and ten years of reliable use........
...that was my lame joke of the month. :)
[Edited by stephendonnelly88 on 16-Dec-05 15:38] |
zkostik
Carrier
Posted: 16 Dec 2005
07:34 GMT
Total Posts: 2486 | Well, flash writes are measured in 100's of thousands rather. There's also a circuitry that helps spread out writes over different sectors to prolong life of the memory. In general, the number of possible writes is so large that you shouldn't really need to worry about it. Of course, software that writes to flash needs to be done properly so it doesn't waste the memory as much. I'd say you'll probably lose interest in your calc way before the memory in it ceases to function...
PS: Tks for the correction TI Freak. I must have been high on something when I typed up that message.
[Edited by zkostik on 20-Dec-05 03:00]
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 |
TI Freak
Probe
Posted: 16 Dec 2005
07:44 GMT
Total Posts:
Edit | you mean 'ceases' to function? :P lol |
Racer9
Probe
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
13:10 GMT
Total Posts: 13 | About this, My TI84SE sorta lost something in the memory, I tried to run a program and it said "ERR: Bad Address" I'm assuming it actually lost something, myabe I should stop Garbage collecting after every exit of Mirage... |
trackstar6053
Marine
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
15:04 GMT
Total Posts: 38 | I never collect unless it needs it and so far i have had no problems at all i constantly use mirage and am unarchiving and archiving prgms |
Racer9
Probe
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
16:07 GMT
Total Posts: 13 | I don't need to, I'm just used to it and after I work with BASIC for a while I do it to help free it up some. I wish I had more RAM to work with, if I did I would never Garbage Collect.
Am I the first person to have knowingly lost at least one byte of Flash mem? (because, if I am, that's seriously kick ass, even though I lost at least one byte of 1.5 megs of archive space) |
Andy
Administrator
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
17:39 GMT
Total Posts: 939 | I doubt that's what the bad address error means. The calculator can't even tell if it's "bad" or not; it'll simply not store meaningful values. |
zkostik
Carrier
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
18:03 GMT
Total Posts: 2486 | "ERR: Bad Address" can result from a program incorrectly accessing the memory or being made for another calc model. And like Andy noted, calc wouldn't know if the memory block is bad...maybe it can but I don't know anyone who actually came to experience bad flash memory in their calc.
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09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 |
Andy
Administrator
Posted: 19 Dec 2005
20:38 GMT
Total Posts: 939 | Going into more detail, that kind of error indicates the OS doesn't like something. NOTHING to do with the hardware.
Further details:
[23:32:11] <Andy_J> Michael_V: Any clue what ERR:BAD ADDRESS could mean?
[23:32:23] <+Michael_V> Andy_J: On a 83+?
[23:32:35] <Andy_J> 84+
[23:32:38] <+Michael_V> It means serious trouble for I've only seen that error once
[23:32:43] <+Michael_V> Usually some sort of weird crash
[23:32:44] <Andy_J> oh really
[23:33:10] <Andy_J> what kind of "serious trouble"?
[23:33:12] <Andy_J> flash wearing out?
[23:33:21] <+Michael_V> Andy_J: oh no...just an ASM crash usually
[23:33:30] <Andy_J> oh ok
[23:33:42] <Andy_J> someone on the CG forums thinks too much garbage collecting caused it.
[23:34:17] <+Michael_V> You tell the people on the forums (and everyone else) that flash chips are rated to 100,000 erasures.
[23:34:25] <+Michael_V> And the AMD ones are rated to 1 million
[23:34:30] <+Michael_V> and erasures only occur during a garbage collect
[23:34:33] <+Michael_V> Not during archiving/unarchiving
[23:34:37] <Andy_J> yes I know that, and we try to tell them that.
[23:34:44] <+Michael_V> Then you have them calculate how long it would take to reach even just 100,000
[23:34:58] <Andy_J> yes assuming 10 a day that's still 10,000 days
[23:35:05] <Andy_J> which is a Very Long Time
[23:35:34] <+Michael_V> and then you tell them my 83+ was purchased the week it was released in 1999 and even after much abuse playing games for two years with countless garbage collections every day (probably 20 on some days) it still works perfectly fine even now
[23:36:45] <+Tyler2> ya
[23:36:47] <+Tyler2> they last forever
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Racer9
Probe
Posted: 20 Dec 2005
12:07 GMT
Total Posts: 13 | I'd like to know how it happened after just sitting there. I backed up my calc, played a few games, ran the program (the LCD fix program for TI84s) because my screen was wacked out for some reason. And then I put it in my backpack. I go into mirage and it doesn't show the program, so I checked the mem to see if I could unarc/rearc to make mirage see it. And I got the error, how exactly did it do that??? |
Lunchbox
Carrier
Posted: 20 Dec 2005
18:27 GMT
Total Posts: 2007 | I've gotten that error before, and it usually occured (to me) when I screwed around with the VAT (Variable allocation table, where all variables are storees, including programs) with one of my not-so-brilliantly-designed asm proggies. That might be the same thing in your case. |
Racer9
Probe
Posted: 22 Dec 2005
12:19 GMT
Total Posts: 13 | I don't see how it just died like it did though. |
Lunchbox
Carrier
Posted: 23 Dec 2005
08:27 GMT
Total Posts: 2007 | If you screw with the RAM, oyur calculator becomes extremely volatile and can do the most random things without you telling it to. |
Racer9
Probe
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
04:20 GMT
Total Posts: 13 | So I'm guess using keyhooks from Mirage and using some of it's various features messed it up? |
Lunchbox
Carrier
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
08:22 GMT
Total Posts: 2007 | Maybe, though Mirage is very well-written IMO and I doubt it would cause the crash by itself. |
ryantmer
Wraith
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
08:49 GMT
Total Posts: 692 | IMO? |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
09:53 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | Irish Medical Organisation |
Andy
Administrator
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
14:09 GMT
Total Posts: 939 | In My Opinion |
allynfolksjr
Administrator
Posted: 24 Dec 2005
14:37 GMT
Total Posts: 1892 | That too. |
